Next Stop Africa
Next Stop Africa
Eritrea Unveiled: Between Resilience and Repression
Welcome back to another episode of Next Stop Africa! Each episode, we are delving into the beautiful and vast world of Africa. This episode, join us as we dive into Eritrea!
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insane to even think about, and so I mean, I I would characterize this as a dictatorship. Welcome back to episode 13 of next up africa. I am a gracious host, amy kikoma, I am congolese. I'm here with the man that does it all ludenen, dominican and Puerto Rican.
Speaker 2:Yo and Afro-Latino.
Speaker 1:And Afro-Latino. Very busy man, but you know I'm glad you found some time for us. This Excuse me, this godly weekend.
Speaker 2:What is that supposed to mean On God's good Sunday?
Speaker 1:Technically speaking, we're supposed to be resting. No, that is yeah, that is true. But yes, continue with the tradition of no quick quiz to help everybody kind of learn more about the beautiful continent. Quiz for today which African country has the official language of spanish? I'm sorry, what? Which african country has the official language of spanish?
Speaker 2:now I heard you. I'm just taken aback by this, but I because I don't know, I mean it would have to make an educated guess, but if you're like, it would have to be alongside the coast, on the west side. So I would say something alongside that like the west side, it hasn't been any, hasn't been any of the countries that we've spoken about. So I'm going to go with west, but I don't know which country. So I'm just going to round it down to to my guess, as the some segments in west africa, it has to be. I'm on the coast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, the answer is Equatorial Guinea. It is on the West side.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is, that's correct.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they gained independence from Spain in 1968. So I was also a little bit. Yeah, I was kind of Didn't know that, I didn't, I don't remember when I learned that, learned that actually. But but yeah, no, I was definitely surprised by that. Surprised, but not really because you know, scramble of africa, I'm like I figured right, there has to be at least right if there's some country speaking portuguese.
Speaker 2:Right like I mean that's true. The conquist Conquistadores were out in the streets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, today's episode is on Eritrea, so we're going to jump into kind of the background of Eritrea the culture, language, his politic, history and economy. So Eritrea is located in the northern section of the Horn of Africa, bordering the Red Sea to the northeast, ethiopia to the south, sudan to the west and Djibouti to the southwest. More than 80% of the population speak Tigrinya, tigray and Arabic. There's a smaller percentage that's made up of, like, uh, afroasiatic languages like sao, which again I hope I'm not butchering, and uh nilo, uh saharian language, kunama again I hope I'm not butchering.
Speaker 2:Sounds right to me and no one's corrected you so far, so so.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Yeah, so we're going to keep rolling with my terrible pronunciation, but religion in Eritrea is made up of 49% of Sunni Muslim, 49% of Christians, mainly made up of the Orthodox Church, but there's also obviously Roman Catholics and Lutheran and Protestants. And then, like the remaining smaller percentage, is made up of, like the other religions, again as a whole population. Tigrania people make up of 57% of the population, tigray makes up of 28% and then the remaining small percentage is made up of Sajo, afar and Kunawa. So politics and history of Eritrea. 1869, eritrea comes under the Italian control as part of the Scramble of Africa. 1882, they become a colony of Italy. 1936, they're incorporated into Italian East Africa. After Mussolini's forces conquer Ethiopia. What happened?
Speaker 2:No, it's just interesting when we get into economy. It's just interesting, that's all.
Speaker 1:When you said Italy, okay, okay 1941, during World War II, the region was freed from fascist rule by the British and Ethiopian forces. 1942 to 1952, a British administration of Eritrea becomes a UN trust territory. 1952, the UN General Assembly votes to make Eritrea a federal component of Ethiopia. 1958, the Eritrean Liberation Front is formed ELF. 1962, ethiopia annexes Eritrea, impeding the independence movement, and a 30-year-long war for independence starts. 1974, ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassie is overthrown in a military coup. A military junta led by Mengitsu Haile Meriam seizes power. I think I'm doing good on these pronunciations.
Speaker 1:You are, you are 1977 to 1978, soviet support helps Ethiopian forces reverse significant advances in Eritrean guerrillas, which is like the war. 1991, the Eritrean People's Liberation Front, elf, captures the Eritrean capital, asmara, and forms a provisional government. 1993, eritreans vote overwhelmingly for independence. 1997, the democratic constitution is drawn up, but never implemented. 98 to 2000, eritrean and Ethiopian border clashes turn into a full-scale war, which leaves some of about 70,000 people dead. 2007, eritrea withdraws from the regional body and their governmental authority on development, igad.
Speaker 1:In 2008, fighting between Djiboutian and Eritrean troops in the dispute of the Haraz-Dumira border area began. At least nine Djiboutian soldiers were killed. At least nine Djiboutian soldiers were killed. Of course, the US condemns Eritrea, but Eritrea did deny launching an attack on the Djiboutian soldiers. In 2009, the UN imposes sanctions on Eritrea for its alleged support of Islamist insurgents in Somalia. In 2010, eritrea and Djibouti agreed to resolve its border dispute peacefully.
Speaker 1:In 2016, the UN Human Rights Council calls on the African Union to investigate Eritrean leaders for alleged crimes against humanity. This might be the first thing that I agreed with them on, when I was like, looking at this, even though they didn't do nothing, they didn't do their job, they asked somebody else. I mean it is the truth. I mean, we know why they were supposed to be there, right? Like, how are you going to call somebody else to intervene when that's your job? But, regardless, somebody should intervene because of the leaders.
Speaker 1:2018, ethiopia launched a surprise diplomatic initiative that formally ended the state war. Since then, there's obviously been plenty of war, growing poverty and, most importantly, press suppression, which is again something that we're definitely going to dive into. You know, eritrean forces since then have been deployed in northern Ethiopia, mainly in the western Tigray zone, I think, if you guys remember what we talked about Ethiopia a little while ago, right, about the ongoing war. So you know Eritrea is kind of tied into that. So you know Eritrea is kind of tied into that. So they've been in that war-integrated zone where there's a lot of war going on since 2020, where they're complicit in ethnic cleansing of the Tegarian people.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think we could take a quick look at the economy. I just want to prefix the economy part by saying that, for eritrea, that a lot of their publishing of information regarding their economy is limited and normally they don't opt to publish a lot of those information, especially a lot of their budget stuff. So a lot of this is going to be bits and pieces of uh of how a lot of their kind of economy kind of works on a very high level. So one of the first things is that they I'll start with the thing that made me laugh, or not laugh, but chuckle a little bit when amy said, talking about, you know, the uh conquest from italy side side of things, where one of their main exporters is Italy sitting at a whopping 30%, and so after that is Sudan at 24%, saudi Arabia at 8.8, china 8.5, uk 5.7 and Egypt 4.8. And so, like, a lot of this stuff is from 28 or 2008, and so these there will be a lot of kind of back and forth between this is 2008, this is 2017, just because a lot of the information is kind of bits and pieces and they, the resources themselves, list other resources as a way to say, hey, like we got this from this website. We're trying to make sure that it makes sense, and so it's just because everyone's trying to cover their basis, since information is not as widely passed out for this.
Speaker 2:For the main imports, sitting at the first is Saudi Arabia, with around 15.7%. Then we have Egypt and China sitting around 12% 11%. India is at nine, russia is at seven, south Africa is at 6.5, brazil at 5.9, and South Korea at 4.3. Again, back in 2008,. I don't know why it keeps saying 2008,. 2008 is where it's kind of sitting at, and so a lot of their kind of imports, in terms of receiving a lot of the revenue and stuff of that nature, has been around about an equivalent $1.127 billion, and this is as of 2017. So some of those statistics that we just listed out probably won't be the exact same, but probably around in that general ballpark. As the external debt that Eritrea has is $1.026 billion, and this was from 2012, in December, and so, again, that just kind of gives you kind of bits and pieces of kind of it from a super high level.
Speaker 2:Not only that, but a lot of their natural resources that they have we're talking like gold pastish if I'm saying that right zinc, copper salt, and they have some possibilities of having, like oil, natural gas, um, and they also have, you know, fish, and so a lot of those kind of resources are kind of like working in their favor, but then, at the same time, one of their kind of struggles that they do have is that inflation continues to rise. In 2017, 2014, around in that kind of like middle teen era, where their inflation was sitting around like a 9% and then currently the most up to date information regarding inflation that's sitting around like between 12 to 14% was 2021 or 2022. And so currently we don't even know what the inflation is because, again, information is not really kind of publicly put out there, and so that is one of their uh, kind of ways that they kind of illustrated out what is going on currently with the inflation and stuff like that and so on. The inflation point before I do forget, because I know the inflation is something that is also kind of a problem and Euretria, and so, on top of them having inflation issues and not seeking out publishing information of any kind of debt or budget or any kind of physical documentations or anything like that, a lot of it kind of comes down to also having drought issues, with a lot of their land, and so that then pushes higher prices on some of their kind of grains and as well as a lot of defense expenditures in order to, you know, to do what they need to do at the end of the day for a lot of their crops and a lot of their necessities from an economical perspective. And so you're getting these like different pieces of it that are. Some of it is in your, some of it it's in their favor, some of it is not. They have those resources and you know a lot of kind of like the labor force really heavily goes on agricultural kind of side, where it's a whopping 80% of the population that works in the labor force focuses on agricultural and so as, and then the other 20% focuses on industry and service or industry slash service.
Speaker 2:I should say, excuse me, and it's just interesting to kind of hear where you know we're hearing like gold, we've always heard, you know, the concept of like blood diamonds and all that kind of stuff. For those of you who aren't familiar with it, blood diamonds is just referring to the excessive methods of first world countries, uh, abusing third world countries and third world areas uh, such as many of the countries in africa that can produce diamonds, um, to the point that, like it is just not even considered a sweatshop, is you can basically just consider it like a modern day institutionalized slavery. But that's another conversation for here. And you know, I know that that's one of the topics that Amy can kind of like dive in and hone in on and be like, oh, let's talk about that. So not a soft topic to talk about, but definitely a great topic to kind of like really research and really understand like a lot of that kind of stuff level aspects of the economy.
Speaker 2:And so I just wanted to read one thing that was interesting that I actually told Amy and Amy was laughing when I told him this about the framework within the financial ministry, within the Eritrea kind of financial policy that they have.
Speaker 2:And so they say, within this framework, the financial ministry objectives are to promote optimal allocations of resources across sectors, institutions and regions, to promote an equitable distribution of income and wealth across the society, to enhance the competitiveness of Eritrea's exports, to ensure adequate investments incentives for both domestic and foreign private capital, to promote domestic savings, to foster greater competitiveness in domestic markets and to monitor tax revenue yield and strengthen tax administration, and so I know that is kind of like the typical thing that you kind of focus on from a physical policy perspective.
Speaker 2:But and Amy corrected me, from a lot of the past episodes that we've had, I think a lot of times a lot of the individuals within either in their quote-unquote presidency, quote-unquote monarchy, say that they are giving back to the people and that they're, you know, kind of you know supporting the people, and so a lot of kind of like the physical policies, a lot of the moves, the, the way they're going about their economy isn't to the benefit of the people.
Speaker 2:And I think and correct me if I'm wrong, amy from this assumption or kind of understanding is that it feels like they like know that they're not doing it for the people. They're like, no, that we know we we're doing it for ourselves. Whatever helps us gets more money is essentially what it is kind of. They're very more forefront, front heavy with capitalism. Um, not to shame or say one thing or nothing about capitalism, I'm not inserting my opinion, I'm just presenting what it seems to my eyes yeah, no, no, I would, yeah, I would agree because he's trying to speak twice already and I was like, oh, let me, let him talk.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, go ahead no, no, I know I'm saying no. I would agree because, uh, I think is we? We kind of talked about that too right in the jabuti episode, where we're like a lot of these governments that's kind of like their MO, let's get the money and then let's. It's like let's prop up the country, we need xyz, and then when we get it, you know it's only for a collective view yeah, yeah, and it's like, and it's like Eritrea it's not like a well-off-ish kind of country, it's like one of the poorest.
Speaker 2:It's not the poorest, but it's like definitely one of the poorest because of all that. And so it's one of those cases where it's more focused on generating profit, revenue for the country itself, rather than focusing on on the people. And so you put that with a little bit of drought, you put that with a little bit of the topic that amy's going to be talking about in just a little, in a little moment, um, a little bit of, you know, some of the current situations, and it makes it hard to for the people to be really cared for, and so that's kind of like the uh, a snippet, uh, economy kind of dissection of it.
Speaker 1:So because there's not, there's not a lot really to go on, and so that's kind of like the best right now, just because there's such limited information out there yeah, and so to kind of continue on that note of what would you say like limited documentation of the country, right, like, I guess, information not being publicized because of the government's restrictive press releases is that. Would you say that like censorship? You said, what censorship? Censorship? There we go, yes, yes, the government, government censorship of everything. So that's kind of the topic for today, uh, where we're looking at not not why, right, because I think we know why, right, there's, there's a censorship of why governments typically put these censorships on the press.
Speaker 2:Why is that, Amy? For those who don't?
Speaker 1:No, we'll definitely answer that. I have no issue answering that. But so before we jump into that topic, I just want to give a brief background on a little bit more on what Eritrea is right as a country and who runs the government. Eritrea is a one-party state. They're ran by the Eritrean Liberation Front, elf. Just for a bit of understanding, elf has been in power since independence in 1993. Hence why it's a one-party state and the retreat is a highly militarized society. The government has sought to justify by citing the threat of war with Ethiopia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Also I wanted to mention one thing that I completely forgot to say. That also ties in a little bit to what Amy literally just said right now, that there is such such heavy interest from foreign countries Like we're talking like and we're not talking just like one, like China or the US or anything. We're talking like China, us, uk, we're talking all the like, all the big first world countries kind of all around, just like seeing, uh, eritrea and kind of jumping on the opportunity, um, and I just kind of want to throw that out there because also from an economic perspective, there's also huge like stars and money signs on their faces when they see er retreat.
Speaker 1:so yeah, uh, again like uh location, right uh, the red sea being right there and that kind of like. Again like ties into what we talked about in regards to, like Djibouti, right uh, them being by the red sea. Yeah, so one party state they've had prolonged periods of conflict and severe droughts that have affected their agricultural economy, and kind of emphasize what Luden said before they are one of the poorest countries in Africa. By the UN's estimates, hundreds of thousands of Eritreans have already fled the country in recent years, making the the journey across, like the Sahara and the Mediterranean to get into Europe, right, so it's kind of sets up the frame. A little bit of what you know is going on in the country itself. And now we look at who runs the country. The current president has been in power for a very long time, president Izaza Forky.
Speaker 2:I think, right, hey, listen, man, you're doing better than me with these pronunciations.
Speaker 1:Yes, president Izaza Forky. I'm pretty sure I butchered that, but he's governed Eritrea since it became independent in 1993. He's basically the people's front right there, which is, you know, I just think about that right. Um, from 93 until now it's been the same man in charge. There were presidential elections that were planned in 97, but they never took place. Constitution ratified in the same year has never been implemented.
Speaker 1:Going back a little bit further, in 1966, he joined the fight for independence from Ethiopia and obviously that's how he went on to find the EPLF. He became the head of the provisional government in 91, when the front defeated the forces of the Marxist Ethiopian government and then in 93, referendum vote for independence. He was then elected president and chairman of parliament elected president and chairman of parliament right. So giving them like sole control of the government's executive and legislative branches Insane to even think about, and so I mean I would characterize this as a dictatorship. Again, how certain political leaders on the continent are viewed right based on what they're doing is always very, very interesting, I think. If, again, like I feel like we say this a lot of times, though, but anytime there is a leader that's doing right by its people, they're labeled the dictator, right, but if you have somebody that's been in charge since 1993 and has sole control of the government, he's he's just a regular president, yeah, but you know, I'll leave that up to you to make that, uh, make that distinction by yourself. But while trying to kind of understand the better.
Speaker 1:I found it interesting right something that I did catch while doing the research right that they were the only african country without a privately owned media. Every media is owned by the government. So that also kind of goes back to what Luden was saying, where he was having a hard time kind of finding information on the economy side of things, right, where things are kind of just referenced from here to here, from 2008, 2005, et cetera. There's nothing that's like current, obviously, because you, you know the government releases whatever they want to release because they own all the media platform. So a few things that we do want to look at.
Speaker 1:I think two important things that we do want to look at in today's episode and topic is why is media limited in eritrea and is the press oppression or press censorship related to the current president's dictatorship? Obviously, I feel like these are kind of like no-brainer questions, but I think it still makes sense to kind of dive in a little bit, and so I'll give some bullet points. Right, on the state of the censorship and the limitation of media coverage within the country itself. So media beyond the state-sanctioned newspapers and broadcasters are non-existent. Right, like we just said, in 2021, reporters without borders, radio deretria, as having the worst world press freedom in the world, I don't know, even lower than north korea, that's. You know, I mean, that's no way that is yeah or north korea yeah, so that's actually saying something.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. The government heavily controls all media publication and access, which sounds like a dictatorship to me, right, if we are labeling that other country as being under a dictatorship, right, because of no press freedom. But again, we'll leave that up to you to decide. Outlets run by Eritreans overseas provide alternative news sources, so basically anybody that does report on Eritrea and the current situation. They all live outside the country, but obviously, again, their reach is limited. Right, they really can't reach anybody in eritrea because there is very low internet access and I highly doubt the government would be okay with just, you know, I'm saying allowing that type of information.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm saying in in the country, right, so I feel like the people that are reporting on it, I think it is still good, right, because they're allowing everybody else in the world to see what it is that's happening, right, which is very, very important, but I'm not sure. But I feel like there has to be a way that people on the ground are obtaining information, right, I mean, honestly, I feel like if you are already in the country, you already know, right, what's going on. Right, so I I don't think like a publication of like news, newspapers or broadcasting. You know what I mean. It's something that they need to see within the country, because I feel like they already know I don't know. Yeah, I think both. I don't think they need to be told what's going on is basically what I'm saying Right, because they are already there in the country and, again, because of the hard work of the people that are doing this broadcasting outside of the country, they are allowing us to know what's going on, right? So it's like do you disagree?
Speaker 2:Well, it's not disagree. I'm not disagreeing. First off, Easy, easy.
Speaker 1:No, I'm just asking.
Speaker 2:The only reason why I was saying so-so was only really for the reason of that, the aspect of wanting to understand that, like because they already live there, they already know, kind of what's going on. I feel like you can say the same sentiment about North Korea, but like, if you ask anybody about new korea, but like what's kind of like the set standard when you, I don't know, have dinner, have lunch for them, I believe if I correct don't quote me on this I think their typical practice is that they have to praise and worship kim jong-un before they eat, or something like that, or after, like they have to do some kind of like, worshiping, like or something like that in their house before, before, after eating. I could be wrong, but there's some kind of like practice like that, and so they may see, they may say that as typical. But then you, you hear that and you're like no, I just eat, I mean, I pray before I eat, but that's pretty pretty much it, and so that's kind of like the closest thing, but like, and so you can easily twist and change their narrative of what it is.
Speaker 2:Within a confined, restrictive and controlling space, you can. You can essentially gaslight people into thinking what is reality and what is not reality, and so that's why I was kind of in the middle of that, because I see where you're saying, because it's true, they're there, they know what the situation is is. It is what it is from the information that they have been told or grown to see or grown from, and so all of that warps your reality and so, like if your reality is just kind of like completely different from the outside and you go outside and you're like different from the outside and you go outside you're like I'm sorry, what?
Speaker 1:so that that's why, yeah, I know, and, um, I think we're, I'm gonna get to that right there. But I do agree, and I I was saying in the sense of like, like they know what is going on right. So even in the case that those you know the, the newspaper and the broadcasting that is happening outside of the country doesn't reach them right doesn't doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know about the actual truth of the government. So I guess, I guess I definitely should have worded it better, but yes, oh no, I I understand what you know no, no, I know, I'm saying I.
Speaker 1:I agree, I do know what you said, but I think I should. I should have worded it a little bit better. So yeah, so that's what I was trying to get at and then I'll just kind of go back to my points that I was, you know, trying to get across. Since the independence, obviously the government has held a monopoly over broadcasting 2001,. The few probably on the newspaper were all closed due to crackdown on the opposition right. So obviously, anybody that tries to contest the president in any kind of way, you're basically not allowed to speak bad on the government.
Speaker 2:Which is kind of like. I'm bad. I was going to say this sounds like an amalgamation of different dictators put into one.
Speaker 1:Right, right, which, again, I feel like a lot of African nations have this thing where you cannot speak bad about the government or XYZ is going to happen, kind of thing. Right, like we were just talking about. Obviously, again, everything is limited. There's an exile, a broadcaster, marina. She operates out from France and she obviously tries to get the news into the country, right, and that's what I was trying to get at. Right, like, that's what I was saying. Like I don't think they're not knowledgeable about the, the reality of their government, because they are, you know, people that were exiled right from the, from the country first speaking out and reporting on the truth, right. So I feel like it's kind of thing where you have to it's the word assimilate right to the government in order to survive, to see another day, kind of thing. Is that? Is that the right word assimilate?
Speaker 2:or you have to lose a part of your identity in order to just blend into what's around into the crowd, I guess I'm trying to say like in order to just survive, right, in order, because you know, if you speak out obviously like well, yeah, yeah, you're, you're blending in, you're stripping yourself into identity, just to kind of like mold into what, whatever it is. Whatever it is, so that you can survive right.
Speaker 1:So then, yeah, that is the right word. Right. Similarly start yeah, okay, cool. I wasn't saying otherwise, I was just like this is what it means.
Speaker 2:Are you trying to say this?
Speaker 1:yeah, no, confused, confused me a bit. But yeah, no, ethiopia used to provide transmission facilities right for groups, but this stopped after signing the 2018 peace deal. Most Eritreans on Facebook and Twitter are obviously based outside of the country, which is similar again to all the forms. They're all based abroad right, mainly in Europe, australia and the US. As I was kind of diving deep into this, the government uses like different tactics, right, for people that kind of stand up or stand against the government, right, so they have like enforced disappearances that they kind of do, which is one I would kind of stick with, I don't know.
Speaker 1:There's, I guess yeah, I guess you could say scary to think about, right where you have two totally opposite people right, you have people that actually love their country and their people and they want freedom for other people, you have somebody that just wants money and control right, and they would do anything to make sure that they keep that forever right and so you will literally disappear and nobody ever hear from you again. Because you spoke up about um, I just want to prefix this by saying that I think anybody that does stand up for their country, I think that's, you know, very brave. And I think it's always amazing to see, even when you read a lot of stories in regards to any African nations, where you have people that are not willing to back down, right, that would do anything to see the liberation of their, of their country, and again, we're just strictly talking about african nations, but yeah, I think it's always um, it's always commendable to see. But, yeah, to kind of get back to like the enforced uh disappearances since, since independence, authorities have subjected like journalists, political leaders and members of like religious congregations to like arbitrary detentions. Essentially, what that is is like anybody that speaks against the current government. Right, it doesn't matter who you are, they would just make sure you're not heard from again.
Speaker 1:Right, and then, something that kind of stuck out to me there was a group of 15 veteran politicians that opposed President Forky. They were called the G15. 11 members of the G15 were arrested by the security forces right 2001, september of 2001, after they wrote an open letter to their president and demanding that he implemented a draft constitution to hold open elections. Right, instead of him just continuing to be president forever. And, as of today, the whereabouts of the journalists are unknown. There was a Swedish journalist, dawit Isaac, right, obviously, like 16 other individuals that have just disappeared, which is again very scary to think about.
Speaker 1:Right, because you're just somewhere, right, like, I'm sure, like some type of prison, you know, and and this is just a, an letter, right, it wasn't like anything like, you know, no rallies, no, nothing, just a letter to ask you know, for you to hold elections, and you just, you know, obviously disappeared. I'm sure you could guess what that word kind of implies. Right, implies, right, like. And then there was, uh, two other people chan chiam ali and brain abri again, I most likely am butchering these names, but they both disappeared after being arrested in 2012 and 2018. Chiam ali was an eritrean us national. She was arrested when she was 15 at the at the Sudan border in 2012, when she was trying to flee Eritrea after her father, ali Abdul, who was the minister of information. He defected and was exiled right. So it's just like you think about that like a 15 year old child.
Speaker 1:That's very insane to think about 15 year old child being arrested and this disappeared, you know, because their father finally realized, like yo, what's happening here is not, you know, it's not good, you know. So he defected and he was exiled and now his child was just disappeared, right like, so it's, it's things like that that kind of played the role into why it was hard to kind of obviously find information on the country. Right, information is very limited to just basic history, right, language, current war, right Like nothing, nothing in depth. Right Like like we've seen in the past, there's nothing in depth that you could really find and be like and pinpoint and be like, oh, is this, is that, is this this? You know what I mean? So it's just yeah, so yeah, so we're gonna go back, you know, to the first question uh, just based off of what, what we covered.
Speaker 1:Why do you feel like the media? You know reach is limited, right and again it's. I thought this is is a very logical answer to that. But yeah, why? Why do you? Why do you feel like the media?
Speaker 2:is limited. If there is a common thread in dictatorship, it's a lot of times it is a lot easier to control if you can control the narrative, if you control the narrative, if you control the truth quote unquote I'm going to put in loose quote unquote truth, because of the difference between what's one's truth versus what's reality's truth. Reality is true. If you can warp and change that and fix and fix it in a way that people see what you want them to see, then it becomes so easy, or not even easy, it becomes so allowable for something like that to happen um, and it's not to say that the people are allowing it or anything of that kind of nature, but it's almost like I think of it similar to a lot of dictators, a lot of the most famous dictators, where they focused on a particular truth, even though that truth may not have been reality's truth or a good truth or anything like that. They kind of had their people rally behind that truth and so like, if you can twist that reality, then it's not a question of of why. It becomes a question of of how and for how long, and so that's what I would say.
Speaker 2:Uh to that, just because you know, especially when it comes to a lot of those we know I mean, we know from history courses, um, for from past experience not past experiences, but past experiences in history courses that talk about how human and civilization fight over harbors, very much so since the time of discovery of harbors, because they worked so much into their favor. And so it doesn't surprise me that the same people that control them are the same people that they're mainly exporting to. That doesn't surprise me that a lot of their imports or, excuse me, a lot of their exports are countries that kind of leave you taken aback. And so I don't know I don't know if that kind of answers it, but that's kind of a little bit of my answer to it, just because I I feel that once you can control, once you have that power and that hunger and that and that dark thirst for it, it's just all downhill from there.
Speaker 1:I think that kind of summed it up. Well, right, I think, like, being able to control what it is that's happening, I think makes it easier for you to look a certain way, because you can honestly just say whatever you want. Right, because I could be like, oh, I feel like this is happening. You could just deny it. Because it's like, oh, prove it. You know what I mean. Like, right, there's no actual like documents that can prove what it is that's happening, I mean, even though we know it's happening, kind of thing, right, so I think the war that is happening in Ethiopia, right where we talked about in the Tigray area, I think that that and I'll say, probably for me as an outsider again, right, that kind of helped me kind of understand. Like, you know, these people are very heavily involved in some real crazy stuff. Right, we're talking about ethnic cleansing of people, right, like that's very much insane. But, yeah, no, I think that is that's what I was. All I would also say, you know, and I'm not really a big fan of like piggybacking off of like an answer, but I think, like I said, like it's a very, very straightforward answer, like I don't think it's something that you'd be like, uh, I think maybe this may be bad, but no, I think that's this is what it is, right. I think if you could control a narrative, it makes everything easier for you on your end, right, but you know the government has been known right to abuse a lot of their people, even even the ones that are displaced when they go to Ethiopia or something, right, obviously, the Eritrean forces they could easily enter, right, flying Jew or whatever.
Speaker 1:I've read about how you know, obviously there's a lot of refugees, eritrean refugees, you know, seeking asylum in different places, right, or entering, you know, see, seeking asylum in different places, right, or entering, you know, neighboring, neighboring countries. I think it was egypt that sent, I think it was like 31 refugees back to ritrita and I think a good portion of them were children or something like that. And I think there was another occasion they sent back, like I don't know, I think it was like 20 or something like that. And I think there was another occasion they sent back like I don't know things like 20 or something like that. But but yeah, a lot, of, a lot of the neighboring countries, you, they're sending them back and yeah, now it's, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think it's just a difficult situation, right, I don't think I don't know, there's always a lack of compassion, sometimes, right like, I feel like a lot of these things, I don't know, like it's hard to just be like. You know, you should do this right because I feel like that's what you should do, right like, I think that's the genuine human being, that is what you should do, right, like. But you, you know, everybody makes decisions for their own countries or whatever. But I think that kind of leads us to the second question, which I could kind of start off with the answer but whether or not this, you know, the censorship is related right to the current president or right, the current dictator of the of the country, and obviously, easily, the answer is yes, right like, I don't think, I don't think that's something to like, even give a second thought about, because, again, it has allowed him to to be president since they gained independence, right like until now. Right, so obviously, the censorship has been working in his best favor. Right, because that means there's nobody that can run against him. Right, because what can he do?
Speaker 1:Easily, just make you disappear, right, easily, there's nobody that, not even just outside of, like political leaders.
Speaker 1:Right, you have religious congregations that have been disappeared as well. Right, so you have people in, you know, in the churches that they've made disappear, right so it's like, at one point, dude, I always felt like I don't know, I always felt like religious leaders have been excluded from you know. That is the second question. Is that just like an American thing? I wouldn't say an American thing because they muddy the waters, but is it typical like politics and state and church, they're separate things. No, right, yeah, so I don't know, you know, I think again, it's just things like that, right, where, where religious people are, you know, when they speak out for people being people hurting, right, they make them disappear. Right, so you just gotta think about, like, the average person now, right, how would they feel? Right, like I could easily, I could easily be gone tomorrow if I, if I ever decide to even like, even if I, even if I thought I thought wrong about, about the government, like they could easily just make me disappear right.
Speaker 2:I mean it's just a land or it's people.
Speaker 2:It's a reflection of the fruits and labor, of what, or let me say fruits of labor, the, the results of how everything is shaped, is a reflection of what the quote-unquote leader does, and so in this case this is a reflection of his leadership, obviously much more of a further outsider than Amy is.
Speaker 2:In this case. It is a ordeal where you have, like this leader since 1993 and keeps going, and keeps going and you would think they would benefit the situation, or benefit the situation for the people, but doesn't, and then continues to do that, and then it's just kind of like one of those things that, like you just start to put your head down, like from the common side of people, from people's perspective, you just put your head down and do what you need to do, and then do that, and then you have your leader, in this case the president, kind of doing it to the style that he's had and preferred all these years and just keeps running with it and wants to not let go of that situation or not let go of the power and the hold that they have. And I mean it's just incredibly like reflective of a lot of other dictators that have lived in the past life within the last, like hundred years. In the past life within the last, like 100 years.
Speaker 1:And so I say if the shoe fits and if it's a spade, you know, yeah, I just want to point out I think this is the first time that we've actually agreed on everything about a country, so I think that should just say a lot about what we're looking at right now. But I don't know, I think, in terms of like eritrea and what it is that's happening in the country, due to lack of information. I think I'm more so lost for words right about everything that is happening in the country. I mean, I don't know. There's nothing, nothing you can do but wish and hope for some sort of change for them, right, I'm sure one day they're gonna be able to have another election right where they could choose you know somebody better. I'm sure one day they'll be able to solve the issues, and I think that kind of applies across the continents, right?
Speaker 1:Um, and again, uh, something to remember though there are a lot of elections happening right now across the continents. Um, I think south africa's elections are coming up, so, but that's besides the point. But, yeah, no, you know, I think for me that's kind of all I had for ritria. I don't know if you had anything else, bro.
Speaker 2:Nothing more than that.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, I think that's what we have today for Eritrea. You know, I think this was, as always, an educational episode where, you know, we kind of looked at the history of Eritrea, how they got to the point that they got. We looked at the government of Eritrea, the dictatorship for government of Eritrea kind of talked about the censorship of press and the limited distribution of information from outside media into the country, yeah, and we look at the linkage between that censorship and the dictatorship of a government that they have. So, again, if you do have any additional information right that you would like to share, I think that would be cool right and definitely be helpful for everybody listening. So, definitely reach out to us and, um, how can they reach out?
Speaker 2:you know that's so great, amy. I'm so happy that you asked because there's multiple ways of reaching out. We have our website, nextopafricanet. You're more than welcome to listen to the podcast up there. You're more than welcome to see what we've been posting on our social media, and you can also get in contact with us. In case you wanted to be a guest host on the next up africa podcast and uh, I'm still looking at you, unknown person that doesn't want to get on the show you can also sign up on our website, so definitely check that out.
Speaker 2:Not only that, but you can find any and all episodes of Next Up Africa on all streaming platforms. That includes Spotify, apple podcast, that includes Google podcast and anything that has to do podcast available platform. You can find it on there. And then on our social media pages, you can find us at official underscore next stop Africa. If you want to reach out, get connected with us, have a conversation. We would love to have a conversation with you. We are also available on Twitter, slash X, as underscore Next Stop Africa. We are also available on LinkedIn from a professional perspective Next Stop Africa, obviously, and so always remember that whenever you're listening to these episodes, whenever you are engaging with us, whenever you are engaging with our content, to always remember to always do five stars and nothing less.
Speaker 2:If you give us less than five stars, we don't want it, because we do nothing but pure excellence here, and so that's pretty much all that I really had to say to you, amy. But, amy, I have another question for you. You know, at this point, I think this is the favorite time that you always love to do, and it's the song of the day. So, mr Kikoma, what is the favorite time that you always love to do, and it's the song of the day. So, mr Kikoma, what is the song for the for the day today?
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, just do my thunder like that. Yeah, no, song of the day today is coming out of South Africa. Artist is Tyler, the song is art. Make sure you guys tune in to our next episode, which will be on madagascar. But, as always though, until next time, peace.